I need your opinion on something.
The other day, I decided I’d had enough of a company’s email campaigns. So I did the right thing and unsubscribed. Within 2 minutes, I received an email from the company confirming that I had opted out.
Photo by John Scott Haydon on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhaydon/
Does there seem to be something wrong with this picture?
You’re sending me an email when I asked you not to send anymore.
I want your thoughts on this, but here are my thoughts:
- On one hand, yes, it’s a confirmation of a transaction. But consider the impetus behind the transaction–I don’t want your messages. Why would you send me that? Can’t that be accomplished through a confirmation page on the site?
- If anyone goes through the trouble of unsubscribing rather than clicking spam, you’re ahead of the game. Why risk the additional spam complaint for the remote possibility someone may change their mind?
- Again, let’s talk about intent. What intent are you showing if you send an email to me immediately after I ask not to receive them? I don’t care if it’s a confirmation. It’s all about perspective.
Maybe I’m missing something and there is great data on recovery from those opt-out confirmation emails. Can someone point any of those out to me?
I’d love to hear your thoughts. I say no.
Yea or nay on opt-out confirmation emails?
——-
A quick shout-out as an update…
John Caldwell has a great post on unsubscribe practices on his blog. An oldie but goodie: “When the email relationship is over.”
{ 57 comments… read them below or add one }
Next Comments →
I say … both. I can see why there’s a stigma against sending that email, but in reality it’s a confirmation receipt for your records. I don’t mind them because I feel confident that I’m actually off the list and I have proof of doing so.
I don’t have empirical data on this, but I bet the open rates on that deployment are pretty high.
I agree with you, Rory. I interpret the opt-out email to be a confirmation that I’ve been removed. This confidence is nice to have given the lack of best practices out there.
I agree with Rory. I don’t think it’s completely necessary, but it’s nice to have confirmation.
My brother-in-law plays guitar, so I often give him Guitar Center gift certificates for Christmas, bdays, etc. Just last week I decided to unsubscribe (weekly emails from them have no value to me). While they said it can take up to 10 days, I’m still receiving emails from them. While I [kind of] trust that it really takes them a couple of days to remove me, I’m also wondering if they are actually following through with my request. I know most email marketing applications remove unsubscribes instantly, so why is it taking them so long?!
Good topic, Scott. I’d be curious to hear what DJ W has to say about it.
Amy Garland
Blue Sky Factory
I think the 10 days is ridiculous and just a way to get you to see more emails. In today’s age of automation, either they are using a really antiquated system or they are being shady.
Sue Anne Reed´s last [type] ..The importance of blog design – blogchat recap 06-13-10
Two words: Can-Spam. The act requires that an opt-out request be honoured within ten business days and some senders view this as a final ten day window to get as much material out as possible.
Naturally the best senders will honour an unsubscribe instantly to avoid generating future complaints. I’ve worked with customers who were so focused on customer satisfaction we actually built an unsubscribe check into the mail server itself just to ensure that if there was a message in the queues when an unsubscribe request came in that the message would be suppressed just before sending.
Thanks for the clarification regarding Can-Spam. I didn’t realize it gave businesses a ten-day window.
I agree that best practices would be to honor the request right away.
Sue Anne Reed´s last [type] ..The importance of blog design – blogchat recap 06-13-10
I want either a confirmation page or confirmation email. I don’t need both, but at least they tell me that my unsubscribe request was received and that message is my last one from them (or at least it should be).
Jeremy: Thanks for commenting! Would you want to have the option to choose a confirmation email? I still think the page is enough, but maybe the option would be okay, too?
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Since Amy G “called me out” I’ll bite. I’m actually in the same boat as Amy and Rory.I don’t LOVE the idea of sending an email after I just told you NOT to send me anymore email, but it is a confirmation of sorts. That part I’m okay with. As long as the email is very very simple – plain text, few lines of copy. If you ask me “are you sure?” or try and sell me something, FAIL. However, I also like the idea of just redirecting to a LP that says, YOU HAVE UNSUBSCRIBED.
So. Yeah.
DJ Waldow
Director of Community, Blue Sky Factory
@djwaldow
I wish there was a way I could hit “Reply-all” but alas, I’ll go with this:
We all have our personal preferences as to whether we mind a confirmation email or a confirmation landing page. I think my preference for a landing page is pretty clear.
For a marketer’s standpoint, what is the confirmation email worth? Is it worth more than the confirmation page?
DJ, you said it yourself. If the confirmation email tries to sell you on something, then it’s a FAIL. So where’s the marketing value in it?
I told my wife about the topic yesterday, and she said, “Oooh, good topic. All I do is delete those.” Which, we can all agree, is the best-case scenario.
But what are the odds your customer receives the confirmation and hits “This is Spam”? Some food for thought there.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Good comments and I can’t really disagree with any.
One thought though; do you really want to give the recipient one last opportunity/reason to report your message as spam?
I see your point, but this is a glass half-full/half-empty conversation. I would love another chance to connect with the recipient. There is a risk to spam complaints, however, I’m confident that all unsubs aren’t necessarily upset with the emails. Like Amy said, she unsubbed due to relevance, not anger.
With this in mind, I want that last “G’bye for now” email to give them something worth their time. You never know what may come of it.
Rory: I agree with “You never know what may come of it.” But odds are, if they want your emails again, they’re going to go back to your website and resubscribe, not dig up the old opt-out confirmation.
And we can’t base our assumptions of whether we’re okay with an email or not on what we email marketers do ourselves. After all, we act very differently from the common subscriber.
I agree with John. Do you really want to add that chance to mark as spam?
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
When was the last time you or someone you know received a opt-out confirmation and marked it as spam? Just asking …
The chances of people ever re-subscribing to a list are very slim. The opportunity to reach out in any capacity should be a focus for an attempt at some form of retention. Maybe I can convert them to a direct mail list, an Iphone app, etc.
We can’t JUST think email here. If all we think of is SPAM then we’re missing the big picture. Email has the power to charge traffic and actions on tons of different channels. It’s beyond the inbox my friend.
I agree. We can’t just think about the inbox.
But what are the odds that someone is going to take the unsubscribe confirmation and decide, “You know what, I’d much rather give them my address or give them access to my iTunes stuff instead of my email address?”
And wouldn’t you rather try to sell them on the confirmation landing page (where it’s MORE expected) than in the email?
The best we can hope for is the almighty ignore on the confirmation email. The worst? A spam complaint and someone who wants nothing to do with us.
I need data to convince me there’s a big enough upside to warrant the risk. Especially if you’re going to try to sell them into other channels.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
I really don’t see it as a bad thing. The only concerning part of it is that yes, my email is still in the system. Even though they’re not sending more emails it gives you that feeling of, “Crap, they still might send me more stuff.”
It would be better to have something just on the website confirming in stead of an email.
-Greg d. (@gregdelima)
Greg de Lima´s last [type] ..Don’t Stop Having Fun-
Greg: Thanks for commenting! I agree. A website confirmation page seems to be the best way to go, especially if there’s a concern like you noted of “my name is still in the system.” While no one should believe that data truly goes away forever, the appearance of such an arrangement might be beneficial.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
I say give the choice to the customer. Ask them if they want to get a confirmation for their records. Never assume either way. If you have a page with the confirmation great, but if you get people wanting 100% confirmation, you can offer up an option for them to chose to get one.
Make the subscriber be in charge,
Andrew Kordek´s last [type] ..Email Tip 4
Andrew: Sounds like you’re a proponent of the preference center, which I think many of us are. (I’ve always pushed for some form of it here.)
I haven’t opted out from GroupOn to know this, but do you guys either a) offer the option of one way or another, or b) send a confirmation email?
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Sounds like the perfect solution to me, give the recipient control. Take them to a confirmation of opt-out and on that page enable them to click a link to receive a confirmation by email if they want one for their records.
Also for those people wanting me to ‘click here to confirm you wish to opt-out’. I wish you would stop doing that. Take me to a confirmation of opt-…and ask me there if it was a mistake… if you feel you must..
Andrew Bonar´s last [type] ..Dispelling the myth of deliverability magic -amp the standardisation of email metrics
Andrew B: Thanks for commenting! Preference center seems to be a good way to go here, though it may be difficult to implement universally. Certainly takes a commitment.
And I certainly agree with the “Are You Sure?” frustration. The opt-out email seems like another way to do that, and I’m not sure I’m comfortable with that.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Thing is, most people will not notice the contents of the “you are now un-subscribed” email. And I am no fan of it either. But in some cases it ís very useful from a marketers perspective, listen:
Two weeks ago I was talking to the publisher of a stockbrokers website. They send daily stock market digests, market-reports, etc. There is a very loyal base of about 35% which checks their email every day, almost never missing a day. But they see quite some unsubscribes from this group in June, Juli & August, and also a higher subscribe rate in this group for the same period. These people unsubscribe when they go on vacation, keep their mailbox clean and re-subscribe when they come back, at least a part of them re-subscribes.
A goodbye e-mail with re-subscribe option could be a great idea. (also a send me later or pause option in a preference center, but that is a bit more technical to implement.) Just to give
And Andrew, i’d also like to add this link because we are talking about unsubscribe / subscribe and everybody loves to punish Derrick
http://folkmedia.org/how-to-keep-prospects-by-letting-them-opt-out-of-email/
Jordie van Rijn´s last [type] ..jvanrijn- Glad to see that Neckermann is still too happy with NED losing the worldcup http-yfrogcom-i336oj this morning- http-yfrogcom-3msscjj
I think a confirmation unsubscribe email is fine as long as it’s single purpose is to confirm that you are honoring the subscriber’s request. Push the envelope and you’re asking for another spam complaint like John suggests. Do it right and you might even win the customer back.
Peter: I think we’re all in agreement that there’s a fine line being walked here. Jordie pointed out that there is an example or two of where the unsubscribe confirmation email is nicely used, but it seems to be driven from the landing page/preference center. Giving the customer the choice there makes total sense, and backs up Andrew’s point.
Simple has to be the way. If you try to sell me on it, could lead to issues.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
In an ideal world, a preference center makes perfect sense but this also assumes that your customer wants to even bother with a preference center in the first place. I am more inclined to say “Thank You” on the unsubscribe confirmation page and make any argument you want there to re-engage rather than send an unsubscribe confirmation…and risk the spam complaint. Our numbers are showing that complaint rate and engagement BOTH hugely relate to deliverability so we’re currently not recommending anything that would sacrifice either.
Nice conversation going on here Scott.
Peter: That’s precisely my point. Is the risk-reward worth it for an issue where you’re essentially pressing your luck after the person is unsubscribing instead of simply marking you as spam.
I’m totally digging this conversation. I’m eager to see data that either confirms or confronts my assertions.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Hi All,
I think I like Andrew’s method the most. Let the customer decide whether they want to get a confirmation email or not. Personally, I prefer the confirmation page the most, since I know that my request went through and I know you heard that request by your actions. I think sending another email right after I told you NOT to send me another email is an invitation for me to click report as spam button, but that’s me.
Basically, it says to many consumers, “hey, I know you don’t want any emails from me, but here’s another one anyway to confirm that.” Really?
It’s kind of like the marketer in this video from the Bring the Love back campaign: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3qltEtl7H8
The girl says I want a divorce; you’re not listening to me. The guy just continues to talk over her and ends saying I will send you some coupons. The girl runs away.
So the subscriber just said I don’t want to engage with you anymore – you’re not listening (sending me irrelevant content), and your response? Send them an unsubscribe confirmation, perhaps with the coupons (win-back offer).
All of this is just my opinion, I have no evidence to back up my theory. Really it should be tested to see which works better for your subscribers and go with that. The one thing I think all the commentators here can agree on is the best thing to do is to test it and see what works best for your program.
Luke: When in doubt, test. Right?
Goes back to the notion of the preference center. If you temporarily opt-out (see: Jordie’s example), then it makes perfect sense to use the preference center and potentially a confirmation email to back it up.
But if you know your churn rates and you don’t have a preference center, it’s hard to rationalize a confirmation/re-sell.
Just my two cents there.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
When a user goes as far as to make the effort to unsubscribe from a mailing list (instead of complain or just simply delete), it normally means they are at a point where they are irritated or angry… in my opinion the last thing they won’t to receive is another email even if it is acting as a confirmation. A confirmation landing page after a user unsubscribes should suffice.
Adrienne: Thanks for commenting! Every email you send carries a risk-reward. Is the reward big enough here to warrant the risk?
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Adrienne, I totally disagree with you here. The difference between complain, delete and unsubscribe doesn’t really say anything about irritation or anger of the recipient. It could just be they are no longer interested…
I wrote something about interestability before:
http://www.theemailguide.com/email-marketing/email-interestability/
I would say that the marketeer should be irritated if recipients complain or delete and act on that by stepping it up
Jordie van Rijn´s last [type] ..jvanrijn- Glad to see that Neckermann is still too happy with NED losing the worldcup http-yfrogcom-i336oj this morning- http-yfrogcom-3msscjj
Have both. I tend to delete the ‘you have been unsubscribe’ messages right away, but it does give me confort that I received a confirmation of my request. So I say yes send it, and keep it simple for those who do open and read the email. As a brand you are sending the message that your company acts immediately and efficiently, even if the email is not read.
The unsubscribe LP gives you more of a chance to be creative, so you can add more valuable information, a coupon, or ask for subscribe back, make it funny like Groupon did on this unsubscribe page:
http://www.groupon.com/unsubscribed?mid=96988&addx=groupon@gmail.com
Pamela: Thanks for commenting! I can see the value in the perception that confirmation email MAY send, but again, it goes back to the risk-reward proposition.
Your point about the landing page allowing for more creativity is a perfect example of why I think it does the job by itself. GroupOn’s unsubscribe process is brilliant, and would be lost in an email. And (being an active subscriber, not unsubscribed) I’m not sure their pithy writing could come across in an email of this nature either.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
I think a landing page confirmation is fine, but once I’ve unsubbed the relationship is over and I don’t want you knocking on my inbox anymore. I agree with John, that you may be giving the subscriber one last chance to push that spam button.
Regards,
jim
Jim Ducharme´s last [type] ..The buzz- Boost opens with Social- segmenting -amp grow your list with social
#1: Some unsubscribe because of bad preference center/unsub page
#2: There are times when an unsub confirmation email does make sense.
—————————————————–
#1: PREFERENCE CENTER/UNSUB PAGE
Some subscribers want fewer emails from you, certain types of emails from you, or they want them to go to a different account. If you
A Best-in-Class preference center has:
-The ability to change an email address. Behind the scenes, there have to be processes in place to confirm changes, merge changes them back into CRM/eCommerce systems and to handle people who currently receive emails on multiple accounts consolidating their accounts
-The ability to decrease frequency of emails (opt-down)
-If applicable, the ability to select product categories, types of messages, etc.)
#2: SEND AN UNSUBSCRIBE CONFIRMATION EMAIL WHEN:
A) The consumer still has a business relationship with the company will continue to receive non-marketing communications via email, even if they don’t make a future purchase. The email should say, for example, “you’ve unsubscribed from our marketing email, but you will continue to receive your monthly e-Bill notification via email”
B) The consumer unsubscribes by phone with a Customer Service Representative (who should be trained to say “You will receive a confirmation via email. If you’d like, you can keep it as proof.”)
C) The consumer unsubscribes by letter or talks to someone who can’t process the unsubscribe request immediately him or herself.
Gary: Thanks for commenting. Those are three excellent examples of where it would be worth sending that type of message. But would it be better to see those as manual one-offs that the reps can send out? I’m not sure it should be an automated process.
The billing process example perhaps can be automated.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Wow – look at this great conversation! Loving it.
Here is my vote:
1. Do not send a confirmation email. Make it clear on the opt out page that the system works.
2. No more emails arriving from your company is evidence that the system works.
3. If you must, put a check box on the unusb page (per Andrew’s rec’d) and ask if they WANT a confirmation email. I’d leave it unchecked.
4. We see huge spam complaints on these types of confirmation messages. When they are sent from the transactional IPs, you put all your other transactional messages at risk of lowered sender reputation. That is bad. In my experience, for every one person who thinks it’s nice to get a confirm (which there are a lot of you on this comment thread!), there are 10 who complain when they see the brand back in their inbox – usually five seconds after they just unsubscribed! Nothing makes them more angry. They don’t read it, they just click “spam.”
So sure, test it. But I would be very cautious about defaulting to a confirm on unsubscribe.
(A confirm off a preference center adjustment without an unsubscribe request doesn’t seem to have the same high complaint issue, in my experience.)
THANKS, Scott!
Cheers to all – thanks for the good comments and ideas.
Best,
Stephanie
Return Path
@stephanieSAM
Stephanie: Thanks for chiming in and providing not necessarily specific numbers, but information that lets us know what to expect from sending an opt-out confirmation. The discussion here is great, but since we’re human, we tend to use our own personal preferences as answers. And we’re not our consumers (typically in terms of how we act/react).
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
I would love to see data on this if you have any Stephanie, I don’t have any so it would put me at ease to see the numbers.
To play devils advocate; who’s to say the/a preference center isn’t a roadblock to opt-in’s? I clearly don’t speak for everyone here as my view point is send a unsub confirmation email, but I assume not all potential recipients want to bother with preferences as they would much rather just be on or off the list. I think it would be interesting to see website analytics on a preference center combined with opt-in data to see if those types of pages have a high spill-rate.
Does anyone have this data as well? (I’m geeking-out here
Great post, Scott. Tons of interesting comments.
I agree with Stephanie’s take on sending opt-out confirmation emails. (Personally, I cannot stand them.) If you choose to test them out, I would definitely provide an *unchecked* “Click here if you would like to receive an email confirming your unsubscribe” checkbox on the unsubscribe confirmation page and closely monitor spam complaints.
Still, it seems that if your unsub confirmed landing page provides all the necessary information in a clear and concise way, the confirmation email is unnecessary.
frances dugan´s last [type] ..francesdugan- Cos are developing analytx tools to reveal whether ppl read- delete- fwd your emails Check out -MarkatEMR s review http-bitly-bYRxYf
Frances: Thanks for chiming in! I think you nailed it on the head in your last comment. If the confirmation page does everything you need/want it to, the email is an unnecessary addition.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Great topic, Scott, and the responses are a treasure trove!
What stands out to me in the discussion is that if you have the reason and the resources for a preference center it’s probably the better way to go.
If you don’t have the reason or resources for a preference center it might be worth testing to see if an unsub confirmation – in addition to the confirmation page – is worth the effort (sending email to send email?) or causing damage (complaints)….
John: Absolutely. Resources always determine what gets done and what doesn’t. I think there is definitely opportunity for the preference center.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
Test, Test, Test – Viva la Email!
Rory Carlyle´s last [type] ..New Author on the EmailGuidecom
I think a confirmation page is the way to go. A confirmation email is going to be seen as a bit spammy to some folks who wanted to be off your email list.
Sue Anne Reed´s last [type] ..The importance of blog design – blogchat recap 06-13-10
Sue Anne: Thanks for commenting! Agreed on the confirmation page!
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
I agree with the idea that you send an email to confirm the opt-out *only* when the user won’t be seeing a confirmation screen. If I click unsubscribe and see a page that tells me I have been unsubscribed, I don’t need an email telling me I have been unsubscribed. If I reply with “unsubscribe” in the subject line, phone in to be unsubscribed, etc. then I can see how an unsubscribe email would have value as a confirmation. That said, such an email should have a nice clear subject line such as “You have been unsubscribed from X”.
Oh and don’t bother with the retention effort in the message, I’d be deleting it without viewing anyway.
Mike Hillyer´s last [type] ..Developing Your Sales Story – Paul Kenny
Mike: Thanks for commenting! Special case scenarios (like manual opt-outs through mail or phone or if you don’t have a page for it) could definitely apply. But I agree (and I think everyone in this thread would to a point) that you should forget the retention/re-sell effort in that email.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
All great comments…and some great suggestions too. But here is my question to everyone. How many you here who have made these suggestions have actually done any of this stuff in a production environment? We use the words test like we use the word “love”. We say do this and not that, but how many us have actually done this on the client side?
Andrew Kordek´s last [type] ..Email Tip 6789
Andrew: I know that the university I work for handles everything through a landing page with confirmation page after. A minimal preference center at best. Resources and CRM compatibility place limitations on further.
But I don’t have the urge to take the time and resources to test an opt-out confirmation email unless there’s data from others to support it. So far, as you’re pointing out, we have a lot of opinions and not a lot of data.
I’m with you in waiting for the numbers.
Scott Cohen´s last [type] ..Email No-No- Sending an Opt-Out Confirmation Email
We have a subscription center back-ended with a CRM. The customer experience currently relies on a dynamic notification message produced onsite after selections have been made. “You are now unsubscribed” … not exactly the last impression I want to make.
Truthfully, I’m not a huge fan. The data supports complete contact removal rather than a ‘selected’ preference. People come in, they uncheck all and leave. My experience with the preference center is negative so far, I’d love some examples on something stellar – that actually retains and converts recipients.
We all know that once a person has unsubbed, it’s pretty much over. Winning them back isn’t common on a large scale. My thought’s around this post were from an optimistic approach – it’s the last time you’ll see this person. Why not at least show them they’re valued and potentially garner revenue or keep the contact.?
Rory Carlyle´s last [type] ..New Author on the EmailGuidecom
Keywords, here; production environment….
That’s why I love ya, AK!
Next Comments →
{ 4 trackbacks }