“We’re not really designed for that.”
If I were to encapsulate the state of email marketing and the plight of ESPs into one phrase for anything outside of retail, that statement would be it. Let’s face it. ESPs are geared toward retail organizations, and why not? That’s where the money is.
With retail, a strong “relationship” with a customer is only needed to get the message through. You can get multiple sales off of the same person. It makes sense. I get it.
And of course, ESPs are quick to offer whitepapers, webinars, advice, and help in any way they can… provided they can use a retailer as a case study. Here’s where we run into problems:
- I don’t work for a retailer (I work for WGU).
- I don’t have multiple products to sell.
- I can only sell a one-time-only product (two-times if we’re lucky, and that’s 4 years later typically).
- I have to work with a complicated “sales cycle” with multiple departments having hands in the process.
- I have a Buy Decision that could take as little as a week and as long as 6-12 months.
- My audience skews older (average student age is 36).
- I use a somewhat sophisticated trigger-based automated email system, and duplicating/bettering that is critical.
- I have to establish the relationship well before a buy decision is even considered. And I have to establish this relationship for a “salesperson” before they even pick up the phone.
So where’s my webinar? Where’s my whitepaper?
This is what’s frustrating for email marketers like me. Not only am I on the client side, but I’m on the client side in an industry where the experts don’t really know how to approach the process–at least not that I’ve seen. I can go to conferences, watch webinars, and read whitepapers–yet have to take everything with a little bit of a grain of salt. (Not the design stuff, mind you. Those are good best practices.)
At work, we just went through (a few months ago) a pretty in-depth RFP process for a new ESP. In the interest of staying neutral on my blog, I won’t reveal who we went with, but I will tell you this with all honesty: There was no eureka moment. There was no perfect match scenario. No ESP could step up and give us everything we wanted. But we didn’t have to necessarily settle either. I just kind of figured out that we were too unique.
So I conclude: The retail orientation of the email marketing industry and ESPs in particular represents, in my opinion, a weakness–an achilles heel if you will–in the armor.
So now I lay a challenge to you ESPs out there. What can you do for me?
How would you tackle a complicated, one-time-only sales process that takes time?
Let’s talk.
{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }
I think that a bigger part isn’t the ESP as much as the sales rep. ESPs are application-oriented devices and can do whatever their features and functions allow.
If a sales person is stuck in a retail mindset, or has had the most success selling to retail it can easily become tha person’s point of reference around which everything else is calibrated. The best reps, IMO are the ones that do more listening that talking. Those are the ones that care about your business and how you intend to use their product.
Just my $0.02….
John: Couldn’t agree with you more on the weakness being in the sales person. The best sales people are those who will listen and can feel comfortable saying “You know what, we’re not a good fit, but I know who would be.”
I’d love for sales people to get away from the “We can do this, this, and this for you” and move on to the “How do you want to use this? Here’s what we’ve done for clients like you in the past.”
Prep work and research can go a long way.
Scott -
I disagree.
You know that you and I often are on the same page in most cases, but I disagree with (some of) what you wrote. I don’t believe that, “ESPs are geared toward retail organizations.” I think a more fair statement is that ESPs are geared towards organizations who have a conversion component to their email campaigns. Typically this “conversion” is a sale (hence the retail connection); however, a conversion can also be an open, a click, a sign up for a webinar or event or class. It all depends on what your goals are, right?
Now, I do agree that a good sales rep LISTENS first. They ask questions to learn more about your specific business needs. They adapt the conversation based on what is important to you, the vendor (aka, the person who is going to pay them). That being said, I agree with John that many ESP Sales Reps (& sales reps in general) focus on the 2 F’s – features and functions – and forget to listen to the needs of the prospect.
As far as your statement, “No ESP could step up and give us everything we wanted.” Of course not. Just like no car is perfect for me, no smart phone does everything I want it to do, no laptop has every bell and whistle that I desire. Heck, I love my wife (the K-Dawg), but she isn’t perfect either. Now I realize that you were not expecting “perfection” with your ESP. Sounds to me like you didn’t extend your RFP process far enough. There certainly is not a perfect ESP for your specific needs; however there are ESPs that – if you ask the right questions (get the right sales reps) – will be able to show you the features/functions that will get you closest to your goals.
Always enjoy a good discussion on these topics. Happy to talk more whenever.
Speaking of talking…dude. We need to grab some beers. Soon. Leave Nora at home and let’s do this! You and I talk better over pints.
DJ Waldow
Director of Community, Blue Sky Factory
@djwaldow
DJ: Agreed that conversion should be the goal. And obviously, conversions will be different depending on the goals of the organization.
Where I will respectfully disagree is in the outreach and education of ESPs and the industry–whether it be whitepapers, webinars, conferences, etc. For someone who is relatively new to the industry (coming up on a year of full-on kool-aid drinking goodness), it’s difficult to really get a full understanding of what’s working and what’s not if you’re not in the retail environment.
Absolutely, an ESP (and the sales rep) should focus on the goals of the organization first. I wrote about this in my Email Silo Thinking post. How does the client want to use email? Does this fit with ESP’s overall goal of client service (not just features and functions)?
In our RFP process (which I agree with you was probably not extensive enough–but time constraints (both calendar and workload) and other issues get in the way), I did not have a sales person who really “got it.”
Anyway, I digress. I’m glad you can disagree with me. I want that. I look forward to seeing webinars that are relevant for clients like me. I look forward to seeing sales reps who understand that it’s INTEGRATED marketing, not just silos.
But since you disagree with me, DJ, beers are on you.
Enjoyed the post but, I have to go with dj on this one and add that getting the right answers depends on the right questions.
One thing dj, will you be sleeping in the K-Dawg house tonight? Heck, my wife is perfect even when she isn’t…especially when she isn’t!
Jim Ducharme
Editor
http://www.TheeMailguide.com/blog
@theeMailguide.com
Jim,
Couldn’t agree more. And naturally, I know more about what are the right questions now than I did when we went through the RFP process.
It’s natural for a potential client to launch into the features and functions in the RFP because they know what they’re looking for in a tool. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that a sales rep will do some research into the potential client (maybe sign up for their existing marketing programs, etc.) and show up with a list of questions to ask that don’t revolve around “What features do you want?”
The agency side of the room is sometimes loathe to accept that they have weaknesses. It’s easy to say “The client doesn’t know what they’re doing.” (Believe me, I’ve been there on the agency side.) What’s not easy is to take that thought process and say, “Okay, they may not know exactly what they want, but let’s help that. Let’s educate them (through whatever means necessary) to ensure that they have a grasp of how email can truly help their business.”
(And, oh by the way, education without too much self-promotion would be nice. The business will come if you put the customer’s needs first.)
Anyway, to sum up, as a client/observer/believer in the email industry, I feel that part of my role right now is to be a thought-provoker.
I have provoked thought–Mission Accomplished.
Well said Scott! Never assume the customer can’t snatch that pebble from your hand!
Not knowing what you don’t know is what can hurt you and worse, assuming your clients don’t know anything at all can kill you.
Love to have you blog for us sometime! Drop me a note.
Regards,
jim
Jim, I’d love to help out. I’ll shoot you an email in the next day or so to discuss further!
I don’t want to take sides here….so I won’t.
I don’t think the problem is that ESPs don’t want or don’t listen to what users need, but it is as simple as supply and demand.
I get sales calls on a daily basis for people who want to run a campaign the way they want and have the features that they want. DJ said it well, “no car is perfect for me, no smart phone does everything I want it to do, no laptop has every bell and whistle that I desire.”
I pride myself on my communication skills(my forte’ is in dialogue, my grammar not so much). I make it a point to listen to what the potential or current customer has to say, even if I already know we will or will not work for their needs. I know if we do not offer the features they are looking for, it is my responsibility to find someone who can accommodate most if not all their needs.
For example:
I spoke with someone from U of M(no DJ I am not trying to suck up
), it was a nice 20-30 minute conversation where they were looking for segmenting based on class, major/minor, and then had departmental requirements as well, it was a great experience for both parties, though I had to suggest them to another service that would better suit their specific needs.
I don’t ask, “Well what features are you looking for?”, I ask “what do you want to do?” I then apply what I know about our features and email marketing in general to play the matching game. Let’s be honest most people who are calling are not email savvy, and that is not a bad thing. I will educate as much as I can to tell them why/why not we are a good fit. If I think that we are a good fit(purely circumstantial), then great. If not, it is my responsibility to be able to direct them to someone who will fit their needs, not an easy decision, but it is the smart thing to do.
I agree that a lot of “sales” rep go the feature route stating “Well this is what we do, how do you want to use it?”, then it is on the customer’s end to figure it out. That is not the way it needs to be approached.
I like to use my position to inform, but to also educate. Obviously I want to provide them with all the info about my company and why they would benefit, but if they won’t benefit, and I can see that through the conversation, then I need to provide them with a service and educate them why they are a better fit.
I think what you are looking for simply does not exist. It is not that they don’t want to offer that to you, but going back to my comment about supply v demand, there are probably not enough companies/people like you who need that. Why invest in providing a feature to one person or a small group of customers?(I know that seems a little crude, but the purpose of a business is to make money, and invest responsibly) I think that if you can find people who are in the similar market and have a demand for something like this, I guarantee someone will develop it.
I think what you want is not so difficult to do, but it still does require a company to have their developers create this, then program, etc.. They may not think it is a high priority.
Just a thought from the “sales” guy side.
Jordan: consider yourself one of the “good ones.” A sales rep that has the confidence to ask “how” before “what” is a good rep in my opinion.
Education has to come first, and I’m glad to see you agree with that.
Email marketing is a tough, tough discipline. Speaking from a client perspective, email is a portion of my job. It’s not my entire job. I write for almost every medium at least on a weekly basis. And I know I’m not alone.
The reason I wrote this post is that for anyone that’s a seeker of information (like me) but does not work in a retail environment, the ESP approach to education and sales doesn’t necessarily mesh well with the needs of the “outsiders.” Some ESPs do it better than others (of course). But I find it difficult to sit through webinars and sift through whitepapers and find anything that’s useful other than some design and deliverability best practices.
As a client, I fully expect a sales rep to come into a presentation and first question be: “How do you use email now?” Second question: “How do you want to use email in the future?” Third question: “Where does email fit in with everything else that you’re doing in terms of marketing and sales?” Then: “Based on what you’ve told me, here’s an idea for what might be a good solution.” (And by the way, as you noted Jordan, it may not be YOUR solution–but I can guarantee you if someone asks that U-M rep about email, he/she will recommend talking to you first.)
Does it happen? Not yet in my experience (limited as it may be). Should it happen? A heck of a lot more often.
Jordan, I hope you take the lead and start preaching the “Education = Sales” model.
Scott,
That is what I am certainly trying to do. I agree, it is tough as a Sales rep to know what questions to ask, luckily I did have an “in” before I got really involved, so I know I am in an advantageous position.
Anyone who is not in email or is looking to email is just going to be bombarded with information, and they do not know how to sift through the crap and what is worthwhile information, and watching a webinar is dry and impersonal. Reading any information regarding email is difficult, I find it hard as a passionate follower of email marketing to find readable material that keeps me interested throughout the entire length. So I think getting on the phone and talking to someone is the BEST THING. As previous comments have said, I think it is a crap shoot if you are going to get someone who is not only knowledgeable about their program, but also in email marketing because they are going to have to explain it to be people in layman’s terms especially when they ask “What do you want to accomplish when using our service?”, and then translate email terms to them so that they understand and can make a semi-educated decision on how they can proceed.
I think there is a separation between sales/retail and for those who are not specifically looking for that, and the sales rep needs to meet that customer more than halfway because the customer is a “newbie”(I do hate using that term haha).
Like you said education=sales
Great post Scott… Definitely provocative, kudos on that…
Some “inside baseball” — the free white papers and webinars that ESPs provide are primarily designed for lead generation purposes. Secondary purpose is to make existing clients feel like they are getting “value add” from their provider, even though the provider will gladly share the same white paper with a prospect who is using another ESPs services.
You will get a few pearls of wisdom from these “thought leadership” programs, but, keeping in mind that they are really sales tools, of course the focus will be on segments that provide the most bang for the buck to the ESP — these tend to be Retail, Travel, Publishing and Credit Card mailers, who send the highest volumes…
Most ESPs today have Strategic Services/Consulting practices — many of them are truly excellent and am happy to offer recommendations privately… These folks will produce educational materials tailored to your industry and most importantly, designed to address the specific needs of your email program… But, of course, you’ll have to ask WGU to pony up an extra 25 – 100K or so depending on the scope of the project.
Jordan–totally understand that the outreach is for lead generation. (I feel like I have to sign my life away to get a whitepaper out of people.) And naturally, lead gen will play to the strengths–being retail, travel, etc.
My contention is that the less agencies try to sell their wares (at least obviously), the more business they will get. In this new society, everyone wants something for free, and they don’t want to be badgered into signing up for something when all they want is the data.
It’s a tough world. Just trying to be provocative enough to stir the pot and get people thinking.
I work for a non-profit, after all. Don’t have the budget to be an easy client
Perhaps there’s an opportunity being missed for an ESP to come along and focus squarely on the needs of academic institutions etc (a la GovDelivery w/ gov’t agencies etc.)
Is the future of the ESP business one where ESPs themselves become “Vertically” oriented, rather than trying to be all things to all marketers by pushing out a few “vertical toolkits”?
You’re right Scott — the big players in the industry are oriented twds Retail cause that’s where the magic is
… But I definitely think you’re onto something here…
I’d love to see if this creates any push toward that very solution. Heck, I could probably run any ESP’s push towards that end as well–I’ve been living the integrated-marketing-communications-for-an-education-institution life for the past three years.
I would say there’s a strong future outlook for a niche-oriented ESPs. Better than a one-size-fits-all mentality or a “how big is your list?” mentality? Wouldn’t you agree?
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